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 Post subject: Re: Who remembers this?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:49 pm 
Rock Ape
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Chopper:

The MilInt wasn't as "anemic" as you seem to think... In fact, as someone who had my own computer in 1981 and having worked/played/programmed and hacked them for decades since, I can tell you that what I worked on was not just cutting edge, it cut so deep it was bleeding edge.

I just checked and it seems that you can get information about the system now from the National Archive so I don't think the black helicopters will arrive just after I post this.

Before my first tour in NI, 1979, I was put on INT under Sgt. Pete Martin and we were sent to an obscure Army base with the worst fucking cookhouse in the world, (black - burned - bits in the bottom of the mashed potato every fucking time), somewhere down near Brighton. It was hinted that if we ever spoke about what we were about to learn we would die a horrible death and then introduced to Project 3702 - Yes, a sexy and hugely descriptive name for a really good bit of kit. But we couldn't ever use the name "Project 3702" because it was so fucking secret so we were told to always refer to it as "BogRat" even in secure communications which was the only time we were allowed to refer to it... :shock:

BogRat was an amazing database specific to NI and the terrorist organizations that may or may not be associated with NI. For the time it cleverly used relationships between seven categories of "objects"... I'm fuzzy on it now but I can remember 6 of them...

People
Places
Vehicles
Organizations
Incidents
Weapons
Forgotten 2

You could enter the system through any of the seven "objects" and when you located a data point like a person you would be able to follow every link to every other "object" they were connected to... So all the other people they were linked to, addresses, vehicles, organizations, (Protestant, Catholic and even Buddhist of appropriate), weapons and the other category that eludes me.

All the INT was graded on a A through E and 1 through 5 system. An "A" meant the source was historically reliable while an E meant there was no experience with the source. A 1 meant that the information was confirmed by other good sources while a five was no corroboration. So each bit of INT had this rating placed firmly at the top. An A1 was solid gold, a B3 was pretty good. A5 was questionable but you'd look for other corroboration because of the A knowing that the source may be compromised and feeding false info.

I put so many Delta Forms through the system and created so many Person, Vehicle, Location and Address records it isn't true.

I just had a thought on the last category - Relationships... Right down to a cabbie driving a person to the airport... That could be the last category.

I worked 24 on and 24 off and there were periods when it was "quiet" and we were encouraged to pick a project and investigate it and if you think you have something to pass it up the line when you had time. I chose the Ballymurphy Gun Team. This was a group that had an M-60 machine gun from the US and were using it. Memory tells me they got 2 RUC in a LR exiting Springfield Road RUC Station and some others. They appeared to work as a team of four but upon investigation it seemed that there were seven individuals, with a possible eighth, that were used.

Our INT was so good that we had something like an A2 or A3 source that informed us of a female that the team where very impressed with because of the way "she blasted away at the RUC with the M-16 she was given" - yes, I still remember that phrase. When they were caught in a house setting up for an ambush they killed the SAS Captain(?) that was sent to negotiate as he walked up the garden path. Of the names that came out from those captured and what they gave up I had six of the seven with the eighth possibility on an Op that they withdrew from.

Then there was a family in the Ardoyne(?) that was so fucked up it wasn't true... This complicated history comes from 40 year old memory but it goes something like this... There was a PIRA sympathetic family where the patriarch was a sympathizer that would help ASU, (Active Service Unit), members if necessary but wouldn't act for "the Cause" himself. He had a son that was active on an ASU and a daughter who was engaged to an ASU member in an ASU that her brother didn't know about. The mother was pretty much innocent yet knew about the foibles of her family... While she was fucking her husband's brother... :faint: But don't worry, her husband had some regular liaisons with a lass a few doors down the street when her hubby was doing shift work. Now, let's not write off the daughter! She's engaged to an ASU member but we knew that she was pregnant by a British Soldier... :laughingat:

It was a fucking good system for the time and way ahead of it's time which still surprises me. I loved it and it was great to be able to check out the girls that we were allowed to visit off base to see what they were about and what the neighbourhood we would visit was like... :evil: Not that I ever did that but it would have been a great use of the system to make sure your mates were safe... :-D

Watching for dark grey helicopters... :hmmm:

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 Post subject: Re: Who remembers this?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:10 am 
Rock Ape
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Hi Ginge ..Fucking Ace post mate :salute: ..Er...Boats and planes :wink: .
Ok ..there is no doubt that the Tool was great fun ,however time has shown that the emphasis was on "street " level Int ...A success in itself ..and ignored all of the orginised kiddie fiddlers , human traffikers and the bent politicos . Iain Paisley comes to mind . So does Mountbatten . Etc . One could argue that the need to know and the volitilaly of such stuff isnt in the Mil Int mandate . I wonder why ? . The Us weapons , and the Gladio stuff all had Id numbers ..but to my knowlage that was never acted upon . Cortex and Semtex also has a signature ...not followed up as far as I know . Amfo did get checked ...but ICI , and The Dow Chem Co got left alone .
I recall calling in sunlight ( ?) to light up a suspect car by a railway ....I had already done the number plate and it was N/K ....still just to kill the monotany ..we lit up the Local Parish Priests car and his 15 year old lover . I am pleased to say the lover was female. Rab Woods got me a few pints for that one :-D
Ok ..trivial fun ... long gone .... One thing that hasnt changed , despite the Tech revolution etc....is that Intel that is not acted upon ..is just junk ...and the Int services are filled with junkies ....Thats how they make a living ...like the snouts in Ireland .
If you havent heared a good rumour by 11 am ...start one ......Billy Connolly :)


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 Post subject: Re: Who remembers this?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:33 am 
Rock Ape
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Chopper

I'm having an utter brain dump right now but it wasn't "sunlight"... I had one hanging on the side of my Puma quite often and used it in NI once or twice... It's a million candlepower... NiteSun... The brain just kicked in... It was NiteSun. It really was sun at night within the area it it was pointed at. It was focusable too so I could spread the light, (it got less intense), or focus it and it became dangerous. There were rules about it's use around people because you could blind people if they looked at it for more than a few seconds...

As to pervs... That wasn't our job... and it shouldn't have been... Pervs are answerable to their community. Combatants, be they terrorist or regular soldiers, are answerable to other combatants...

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Look at Venezuela and understand that you can vote yourself into socialism, but you have to shoot yourself out of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Who remembers this?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:32 am 
Rock Ape
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We operated a similar system when I was out there in'73 only we called it "cardex" and there was no keyboard attached. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Who remembers this?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:22 pm 
Rock Ape
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GingeM wrote:
Chopper



As to pervs... That wasn't our job... and it shouldn't have been... Pervs are answerable to their community. Combatants, be they terrorist or regular soldiers, are answerable to other combatants...

Fuck ...So where does that leave Prince Andrew ?? :lol: .


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 Post subject: Re: Who remembers this?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:13 pm 
Rock Ape
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Chopper, you might be hanging out as far from the UK as can be, but you've got your finger on the pulse. Right on, man! :niceone:

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'When things look bad, and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb mad dog mean. Cause if you lose your head and you give up, then you neither live nor win, that's just the way it is.'


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 Post subject: Re: Who remembers this?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:35 pm 
Rock Ape
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Chopper:

I dunno... Maybe he's a part of that "Establishment" we keep hearing about that the media sniggers and tells us doesn't really exist... *COUGH CUNTS*... :eek:

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Look at Venezuela and understand that you can vote yourself into socialism, but you have to shoot yourself out of it.

Human beings are born with different capacities, if they are free they are not equal and if they are equal they are not free.


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 Post subject: Re: Who remembers this?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:43 pm 
Rock Ape
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It was a great system but sometimes circumstances work against you... I posted this previously here and it is a perfect example of how too much information available to government can fuck you when you're innocent...

Quote:
On my first and third tours in NI I worked in the Intelligence Cell. One of the many duties I performed daily was to check the names, addresses and vehicle registration numbers of everyone that had been stopped at Delta that day. The Delta forms where checked using a computer system that, at the time was classified as secret but it linked an astounding amount of information about people, places, vehicles, incidents and weapons for it's time, (this was the early 1980's remember). The routine was that the forms would be brought in from DVCP with shift changes and when the lads were coming in to feed.

On this day a pile of forms came in at lunchtime and I started typing in all the names and addresses of the drivers and passengers that had come into the airport that morning. I had started at the top of the pile and this meant that I was checking the most recent first. I typed in one particular name and it returned a flashing screen that said "Lift on Sight" meaning that this person should be arrested immediately he is located. As you can imagine, this doesn't happen often so I began to crosscheck all the information. The first name, middle initial and last name matched. The address was, literally, across the street from the address on the screen and was just over the border from Londonderry in Eire, (it was common for active terrorists to slightly lie about their address so that they can describe the street etc. exactly and would know all their neighbours but to not place them at their real address). Hmmm... The date of birth had the day and month reversed, (2/4/19XX as opposed to 4/2/19XX - another popular trick of the terrorists)... This was really beginning to look like the real deal... Lastly, the chap on the screen had been associated with the vehicle this person had driven through Delta in).

I looked at the time the vehicle was stopped and realized that it was less than an hour before and that he was dropping off a friend. The chances were high that, (if he had parked and gone to the gate with his friend), that he was still in the airport. I decided to lock down Delta and not allow anyone out until the VRN had been checked. I also sent a patrol to check the parking lot for the vehicle. While I was waiting to see if he was in the airport I checked to see which checkpoint he had crossed the border through and found that he had been entered into another computer system at one of the several checkpoints near Londonderry. The chances were very high that he would return via the same route he came to the airport and that, if he had already left the airport he would still be in transit.

Within about 20 minutes I had confirmation that he was not in the airport so I called the border checkpoint and told the detail there that a "lift on sight" target was en route from the airport probably back through their location. About half an hour later I received a phone call from them telling me they had the man.

My boss was really chuffed that I had caught a "bad guy". Not in the least because two days later the AOC was doing his annual inspection and would be going through our section. Needless to say, on the day of the inspection, my boss brought the AOC through the Int. Cell and had me show him how I caught the criminal. The AOC was suitably impressed and I'm sure my boss got a good write-up after the inspection.

The next morning I got another call from the unit that ran the border checkpoint. They told me how the "bad guy" had been shipped off to the Royal Ulster Constabulary HQ at Coleraine for interrogation and how he had been held for more than 48 hours under interrogation before they imported two Special Branch detectives that knew him personally to help with the interrogation. They further related how they entered the interrogation room to begin working on him, took one look at him and asked the guards who this chap was.

It seems that, despite all the "near misses" in the information he gave us this was not actually a terrorist... Oooops... He was promptly released. I told my CO but I'm pretty sure he never told the AOC...



It was still a fucking good system.... :niceone:

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Look at Venezuela and understand that you can vote yourself into socialism, but you have to shoot yourself out of it.

Human beings are born with different capacities, if they are free they are not equal and if they are equal they are not free.


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 Post subject: Re: Who remembers this?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:35 am 
Rock Ape
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Yup ..Exactly...The efforts to intellegently get a baddie , suddenley evaporate into a bigwig check up of "how is it all going Chaps".... To "Its none of your biz" . A 3 letter org is dealing with it . At least you got paid for your dillagence :) ..
I sometimes did unregulated and non approved stuff.... Couldnt help it really ..standing on Delta . Doing licence plates . And waving cars through . And feeling the "ground " .
I intuitivley pulled several " Dont Stops " ... 3 in 6 months .. The non Raf feed back ..face to face was bril... Two of the "dont Stops " were rather impressed ..and very greatfull for the no fucking nonsense ...you are pulled.. :eek: . Its pulling cover for good folks . :wink:
The other one was way more instinctive for me ...I pulled the head of Uk customs and I was very unpopular indeed . I now understand that I did the right thing .Think DeLorian ..Cocaine , Guns , Ira ...whatever ...but I pulled the Fucking Fuck ....and , unhappliy ..the later result was a Customs and Excise operation on a Dz ...And all the lads had King Eddies and Brandy ... And we escaped the fines ,harrasment ,disciplinary measures and wrath because some bloke turned up and stopped the situation . The bloke came by Puma ..and Obviously was on top of the Intel ..real time , ..had 7 " staff " with him . and not many people know that :lol: ...


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 Post subject: Re: Who remembers this?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:58 am 
Rock Ape
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Chopper:

That drop was on 9/11/81 on West Wretham DZ coming back from an Ex in Germany, (I checked my log book :wink: ).

Everyone's furst though was that we were on a freebie with regard to customs and loaded up with contraband. Pretty much the moment we landed the buzz went through the Sqn. There were more now cairns springing up over the next 15 minutes than had been built in Scotland in two millennia as the lads tried to hide their stuff. Once we were knocked off a convoy of cars drove back to the DZ to try to recover the loot. It being such a big featureless area very few people found much and I'll wager there still a lot of Asbach and the like buried there...

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Look at Venezuela and understand that you can vote yourself into socialism, but you have to shoot yourself out of it.

Human beings are born with different capacities, if they are free they are not equal and if they are equal they are not free.


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